Hunting The Muse

Thank God it's stopped!!!!

Yeah, Dribble! Those dirty gays were just about to invade your house with machine guns and sully your marriage! Thank God you were protected in time!

Gay marriage = equality.

Nothing more, nothing less.

And if I had to choose between living in a world where gay marriage was the norm or where the so-called religious right(an oxymoron if there ever was one!) ruled...well, raise the rainbow flag, baby!

1.How is that an oxymoron?
2.Its not about religion only its about morals and whether you want to live in world where guys are doing guys in the butt and getting married is ok to you. For me its not and for 70% of the nation its not. I think its insain for LIBERAL freaks to try and make gay marriage legal when the nation says NO!
3.If gay people want to get married and be so called "equal" to a strate person become..... strate.

(tunesmith falls down laughing)

If you take the christian bible as an authority, gay marriage, or homosexuality in general, isn't any more 'morally wrong' than pre-marital sex, adultery, masturbation, or oral sex. In the old testament, all of these were punishable by death. Would you like to go back to that system?

I saw this page and I just wanted to add some words.

Not only is being Gay immoral. It does not make any sense at all. Im religious, Im Muslim. But I don't base this issue on religion. This is about Common Sense and morals. Marriage is between a man and a woman. It has been that way for thousands of years. Now it hits in the year 2004. Gay Marriage was allowed in only ONE state. Maybe it will spread across the nation.

Also here is a graphic but yet true issue:
If your a woman, would you be comfortable with a lesbian women examining your vaginal area? No. I didn't think so.

If you were male, would you be comfortable with a gay doctor examining you? No. I didn't think so also.

Keep in mind that since Gays are somewhat taking over the world. Think about daily life.

Here is also a fast fact:
Did you know the Gay Marriage debate is a very bad sign to the world? Figure out what that means.

I really appreciate you reading what I just stated.

Thank You

Machiko

Your religeon and morals have no use to the American government. If you find statistical proof that gays getting married actually hurts the people of America, physically, then some one will care.
Here we can make any religeon we want because of a terrible mistake made by our fore fathers, they didn't realize how far we'd run with it.
If you think gay marriages some how effect the sanctity of your marriage, you really care to much. If people didn't make such a big controversy about it I beleive the whole thing would die down and no one would feel passionate enough about the subject to controdict any of you. All this anguish toward gay people was doubtlessly going to start some rebelion, "Big mean straight people picking on small gay community!? America won't have it!" Your dead wrong, Americans love controversy, its a sort of Infonography. Controversy, media, politics, modern information has become pornographic. Now every one knows whos gay, whos straight, whos married to who. And we thrive on it. Well to all of you who hate this gay marriage thing, it really is your own fault.

Masayuki

I completely agree with you Masayuki!

Personally I believe same sex marriages should be legal in America. First and foremost because THIS IS AMERICA, and every citizen should have the freedom to marry whomever they want, whether that person is a man or a woman. There are Bible goers who parade about, reminding all of us that homosexuality is considered a sin in the Bible. Well didn't Jesus say for us to judge ourselves before we judge another?

I'm sixteen, I live in New Orleans, and up to this point in my life every "homosexual" I have ever met or known has been a nice and caring person. Not every gay on the street goes prancing around like one of the "Queer Eye" guys. Nor does every lesbian buzz-cut her hair and march about in army boots and sleeveless shirts. Do people feel as though somehow lesbians, or gay males are attracted to everyone single person of the same gender they come across? Of course not. For all we know Lucille Ball or Marlon Brando could have quite possibly been gay, if that fact one day appeared to the public I bet many people would feel differently about them. Just because of that one little difference in their life.

In response to what Machiko said I would much rather have a female gynecologist examine my vagina, whether she was a lesbian or not because I quite believe she'd know far better what she was doing than any man!

Masayuki, that's a fascinating point. Infonography. I've never thought of it quite that way before. I'm not so sure about the negative connotation though - I think that the American hunger for information and public opinion (if that can be called distinctively American) is a positive trait, although it can of course be abused. All the Martha Stewart/ Michael Jackson / Kobe Bryant stuff is sort of a side effect of something else that is really great. But anyway, I'd have to agree that by making such a huge honking deal out of the gay marriage thing, the conservatives are playing right into their opponents' hands. Mainstream America is at *most* vaguely concerned about gay marriage. But those conservatives are like your crazy uncle. You grumble about the store on the corner raising their prices, your uncle agrees and offers to blow up the store, and then you're not so sure you want your uncle speaking for you anymore. There's nothing like a few well-placed bigots to help the rest of America decide to be more tolerant.

Machiko - you're making wrong assumptions of what other people are comfortable with. A lot of people could care less what the sexuality of their doctor is as long as they didn't make a pass at them. Your justification sounds more based in fear than in morality.

I do not think Gay-marriage should be allowed in this country or any other, and I'm not basing this just on my faith. For one, since marriage between one man and one woman has been around forever, I believe if we allowed gay-marriages, then we'd just be opening the door to any kind of sexual unions. If this is all about rights, then whats to stop couple marriages, or incest marriages, or bestiality marriges? The line has been drawn, and we need to keep it there, if we don't there will be no meaning to marriage at all. You may say so I don't care, but guess what most people do, other wise we wouldn't be fighting to preserve marriage.

Sarah's right. I have been trying to marry my cat Mystico once a week for the last year. I put him in a cat carrier and take him to the courthouse. They turn me away every week, and then I shake my fist at the sky and howl, "Just you wait until gay marriage!" So after Massachussetts happened, I went down the courthouse, and I really think it was about to work, all because of gay marriage! But then Mystico threw up on the clerk. Anyway, I am clearly plotting against the institute of marriage, me and my boobly woobly Mystico. If they don't let me do it soon, Mystico might die and I might have to marry Mystico's kittens, one of whom is male. That means that it'd be a gay polygamist bestial incestuous marriage. You conservatives better look out for the awesome destructive power of Mystico's lineage on your precious straight human monogomous marriages. Be forewarned.

I completely agree Machiko. I DO care what my doctor is cuz i dont want her checkin me out while she is examining me. Thats freakin gross! Plus, why would you want something you already have? Seriously, If men were supposed to be with other men then they would have been created like that and vice versa. If you have to force something to work then it shouldn't be. Its just not natural and its not right! On top of all that its so freaking disgusting!

**Machiko

Maybe y'all would support a Constitutional Amendment that simply said "Ick"?

Short on time, I've got to comment on things here in ASCII buckshot. Let's see how many I can hit from here.

Robin, good points re the New vs Old Testament. Here's a couple more. Early Christians originally greeted each other with a kiss, regardless of gender. It'd be ironic if the Romans had the right idea all along, wouldn't it?

Machiko-san: You're more concerned about your doctor's sexuality than his or her competency? Interesting. Oh, and questions aren't facts. Questions are much more important.

Sarah, if you're worried about incest, please bug the Calfornia state government for me. My home state is embarassing me again. Read this and see what I mean.

Mayasuki-san, trademark "Infonography" immediately. You'll make a mint! Seriously though, that idea rather reinforces one of Hitchcock's prevailing themes: We're all voyeurs.

There you are, folks. Minty food for thought.

It's really not a surprise that this sort of debate is going on.Satan has had his way with this world for too long.People need to wake up and turn to Jesus!God meant sex to be for 1 man and 1 woman after marriage.There is a life in heaven after this world and there is also hell.God is not a good ol'boy!Repent now and turn from your sin.You will be rewarded for it.

Any mortal really ought to concede to the thin ice he/she is walking on whenever speaking for God. Certain knowledge to the inner workings of God's mind just isn't our purview. When Lot offered his daughters to the wretches of Sodom and Gommorah, or when Lot's daughters decided to lie with their own father, did God approve? He didn't strike Lot down for that, so should we assume the Almighty would let statutory rape, slavery, or child prostitution stand? That's not the God I know. And yet people insist that, if it's in the Bible, it must be so. What am I, as a thoughtful adult raised in the faith, supposed to believe?

Okay, so what's my point? We pretend to read God's mind and pick our pet outrages. Let's take some responsibility for ourselves and stop giving God credit for our pet obsessions. Try again.

It is very clear throughout the bible that God is against homosexuality. (Read Romans 1) (1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders) Just because He doesn't strike you down for it doesn't mean it approves of it. Millions of people lie, cheat, and steal daily, but God doesnt strike them down. This doesn't say that He approves of it. One day, all sinners who do not have Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior will receive the punishment that they deserve. (Psalm 7:11, Ezekiel 7:3, Ezekiel 18:30, John 12:48) It is not our job to judge the person, but as a Christian I am told I can judge the actions. (James 4:12) Homosexuality is an action that God is against. The bible says it's wrong. Seeing as all scripture is God breathed, (2 Timothy 3:16) I believe it's true and will continue to stand against homosexuality. On the flip side, we as Christians are to hate the sin, love the sinner.(Romans 12:9) We can not treat them different just because of their sin, they are still people that God loves,(Romans 5:8)(Remember, you were once in sin as well, remember what you were rescued from) He just hates their sin. That doesn't just apply for homosexuality, the bible says all sins are equal. Everything from lying, murder, adultry, lust, and gossip. God loves us all not matter what sin we are stuck in, but He hates the sin itself and if we don't have Jesus' blood to cover that sin we will be judged and punished according to it. (Hebrews 9:22, Ephesians 1:7) I don't pretend to read God's mind, because I know what He thinks, there is an entire book on His thoughts and feelings, it's called the Bible. As for pet outrages, I would not consider this a pet outrage, anything that contradicts the Bible should outrage Christians, not just homosexuality. I agree that it seems that Christians are focusing on this issue and almost making it a "pet outrage", since it is the issue at hand that is endangering the future of our nation, I think we have a pretty good reason to focus on it and fight for a federal marriage amendment. If the issue at hand was abortion, adultry, or even lying I would still take the same stand, and that is a stand on the word of God. I hate the sin of homosexuality and are 100 % against it, but love those who are captive by practice it.

I’m afraid you missed my point. God’s word cuts both ways. There are verses in the Bible that condone slavery, incest, the oppression of women, and the slaughtering of unbelievers. And yet we can agree that God doesn’t approve of such things. The Bible inspires and instructs us, but it’s not a crutch. God helps those who help themselves. We choose the ethical in the Word, then call the rest “relevant” when it suits us. He gave us minds of our own. We should use His gift and think for ourselves.

As far as a constitutional amendment goes, it’d be the biggest mistake since the Dred Scot decision. The First Amendment of the US Constitution calls for a separation of church and state. Any church. We can’t play favorites. We can be a nation under God, but every American must find that God in their own way, in their own time. We can’t just ram a tube down people’s throats and forcefeed them with the Body of Christ anymore. Freedom is also God’s gift.

LOL...some of these posts are such a riot! Hey, Machi-guy, hee, hee, um, yeah... I'm thinking it is sooo important (top priority even) that the person who examines my privates needs to want to put his hangy-downy in me. LOL

But, you're side-stepping one key possibility. Wouldn't it be better for a gay guy to examine a "strate" (LOL!) woman...then, she doesn't have to worry at all about the issue of being poked, molested or lusted after! LOL! Let me guess, Machi-guy, you've got a picture of Archie Bunker hanging in your living room, right? :))

Leah

If everyone met and knew the same Jesus I have experienced, there would be no question on this issue or issues like it. People can look and try to find any God, any time, and in any way, but they will never find a God like my God! As for using my bible as a crutch, you're very correct, it's the only truth in the crooked and depraved world so I will stand on its truth. The ENTIRE bible is revelant in some way or another, it's sharper than any double edged sword and will pierce hearts. However, I do think for myself, I just filter my thoughts back to the word of God. As for freedom being God's gift, God offers amazing freedom. Living in sin and according to the world's standards and ideas of freedom, isn't freedom at all. It's very far from it. If the worldly standards offer freedom, how come there are so many people that are depressed and suicide rates are so high? I can truely say from the deepest parts of my heart, i have TRUE freedom and TRUE peace in Jesus Christ my best friend, Lord, and Savior.

“They will never find a God like my God!” Y'know, I’m not sure how to take that. Is it supposed to be petty: “It’s my God and you can’t have it?” Is it the voice of a bully: “My god can beat up your god?” Is it arrogance: “God says I’m better than you?”

Pride is one of the Deadly Sins, isn’t it? Let’s check the Book of Proverbs: “Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall.”

You also mention suicide. You frame it in a fallacy, a false cause-and-effect, but it strikes a deep chord for me. Let me tell you why. I normally don’t share this with people. It’s a very personal thing for me. I had a religious experience in high school. I was miserable. Exhausted. Lonely. I’d been staving off thoughts of suicide for a few years, and one day in church, at the end of my tether, I begged God for help. And He came. He didn’t yell me for being a sinner or insist I let Him do the thinking for me. He gave me love. He told me I wasn’t alone, that I shouldn’t hurt myself as I had been, and that whatever comes, I can handle it. Then He sent me on my way. I still had problems, but I wasn’t overwhelmed anymore. He got me through it. I had hope again. I got a grip on myself. A year or two later, I met the woman who became my wife. Things worked out.

Now I’m not kidding here. Call it a hallucination, a joke, or a faulty synapse if you want. I can’t prove it happened. I can only say that it did. God came to me because I let Him in, not because I was obedient, devout, or even worthy. That didn’t happen in all the years I was raised in blood ‘n’ thunder religion. I needed Him and suddenly He was just...there. Waiting for me to open the door.

God isn’t a weapon to threaten people with. The way you speak of Him, it sounds like you’ve been making everyone else pay the price for your freedom. You call everyone sinners and speak as if you’re above the rest of us. That’s a shame. You and I are in the same family of sinners, and we have the same Father. Mother. Whatever. God isn’t an act of violence, fear, or hatred. God is love. And Mine is just as good as yours, Carly. I’m pretty sure it’s the same One...and that we’re both driving Him nuts. Let's give Him a breather, okay?

Q: "...how come there are so many people that are depressed and suicide rates are so high?"

A: "Blood-n-thunder religion" ... it instills self-loathing, hatred of "sinners" (aka human beings), judgment, racism, shame of one's natural and beautiful sexuality (and, of course, the "unnatural" variety) into the mind's of children (and it is continually burned into their brains as they age...threatening that "their God" will fry them in hell for simply being what they are, the human beings 'he' created...for enjoying life, their bodies, food, for making bad choices..."sinning"...at times, etc, etc...odd how those "bad" choices are often the very choices that we learn and grow so much from...) and then many of these fanatical Bible-pounding, self-loathers...become adults (?) who say things like, "People can look and try to find any God, any time, and in any way, but they will never find a God like my God!"

No one (especially the most poignantly arrogant ones) can live up to those ludicrous and ill-interpreted Biblical standards. And, by the way, if I'm wrong about this and those "...My God!" people are going to that supposed place called heaven...um, well, count me out...the real "heaven" MUST be somewhere else...

Golly gee, I wonder why people are so messed up???

Leah

Um...fluoridation? ;D

Wow! Lets clear up a big misunderstanding, that statement is not petty, the voice of a bully, or arrogant. It simply meant that the God I know is more loving, more powerful, and above all other Gods that people can find to worship and serve. You took that entire last post in the wrong way. I'm not saying I'm perfect and don't sin. I dont go around telling anyone I am better than them. I was never raised in the "blood-n-thunder religion", in fact I got the opposite, I was born into a household where sinning was very acceptable and practiced on a regular basis. Two years ago, I lived in darkness, my life was completely characterized by sin. I did nothing good and nothing of value. My life was worthless, pointless, and I myself also had thoughts and attempts of suicide. But then one day, by the grace of God, he found me and grabbed ahold of me and hasn't let go since. He completely changed my life, the way i think, the way i live, the way i act, everything. And yes, i am proud, in a sence, to say that Jesus Christ changed my life completely. I don't understand how saying that God offers freedom and peace is using him to threaten people. I never said I was above anyone, 2 years ago I was probably as far below anyone as it gets. But Jesus changed my life, I still sin, I'm not perfect, but my life is no longer characterized by sin, I have freedom and grace that was undeservingly given to me and it enables me to overcome temptation. Granted i will still have struggles and battles, but the war has already been won and taken care of at the cross. I'm very sorry that we had such a big misunderstanding and if I came across as an arrogant, mean, turn-or-burn type of person, that is not me at all and i'm sorry if it appeared to be. I'm very happy for you that everything in your life worked out and you came to know the love of God and met your Wife. God is wonderful, is he not?

And Leah, your very correct, no one can live up to the standards of the bible, but we can try. And I honestly dont mind being called a bible pounder because I'm sure there are very worse alternatives. And I'm very sorry that your childhood and "blood-n-thunder religion" caused you to have a bad outlook on God, but i want you to know, i will be praying for you and want you to know that God loves you no matter what you think of him.

Carly,

Although I do believe in the power of SINCERE, NON-JUDGMENTAL prayer, I'm not thinking you are, at this point, capable of such...so please don't bother.

It's exceedingly sad that you don't feel that you are deserving of "freedom and grace." I revel in the knowledge that I am :) The Bible says we are the "children of God," who could be more deserving??

Regardless of what we do, he/she will not punish or burn us, we are his/her beloved children...would you burn any of your children? Then why would expect the most perfect One to do so?

We punish ourselves when we go against the nature of that which we are..."children of God." We punish ourselves and inflict suffering upon ourselves when we harm others...others are us...this is why the Bible says, "Do unto others..." Because "others" are us...we are all the "fabric" of "God"...it's not a warning about punishment, it's simply telling us if we harm others, we will harm ourselves; if we judge and hate others (yeah, even gay people), we will judge and hate ourselves...something like spitting into the wind...

Also, Carly, it would serve to raise you low self-esteem if you realize that "God" is within you, not church. We are all of the "fabric" of "God." And, FYI, "God" has no need for a hangy-downy, he/she encompasses the spiritual energy of both genders and has no physical body. Additionally, MEN wrote the Bible, MEN interpreted the Bible, MEN are bias and "imperfect." Think about it...

Now, go ahead and write your pages of nervous elaboration on "your God" as your heart races with the horrific fear that you may be inaccurate in much that you say and believe... but, I would love it if what I have indicated here would calm just one heart from the fear of the most inaccurate notion that they will ever "burn in hell" or be "eternally damned." It's simply not the truth...a "God" that "is love" cannot at the same time exude hatred and judgment...

Leah

Thanks, Carly, I’m glad we could clear all that up. You seem like a genuinely nice person and I’m glad you made it through. But yeah, what you said did come off as mean and judgmental. The problem is that many self-professed Christians express themselves in a “Jesus loves me, but He can’t stand you” kind of tone, to quote the Austin Lounge Lizards. And that's the only part people see of it.

A close friend of mine and I discuss this a lot. She wasn’t aware of the compassion, charity, or intregity to Christ’s actual teachings until she asked me about it. We Christians should embody His kindness, not hide it. “The meek shall inherit the earth.” Fine, then let’s earn our pay.

Leah, you got a LOL out of me there! “God doesn’t have a hangy-downy.” (Hindus might disagree, but hey....) Now this’ll probably blow my credibility with some Christians, but in my little OOB experience with Christ, I didn’t see a guy who looked like Robert Powell, Jim Caviezel, or Max von Sydow. I saw golden light. Only after I recognized it as the light of God did I get glimpses of the human form Christians know (the implicit message, I assume, being “Get a clue; it’s Me.”) So no, I don’t think God is encumbered with any peripherals. In fact, when I refer to God, I alternate between He, She, It, or whatever.

And before people start screaming “blasphemer” or something, there are canonical precedents for addressing the Holy Spirit as She. Any Wiccans in cyberspace are welcome to keep that one in reserve. In case of emergency, break dogma.